CTS gas pedal uses a different resin/plastic - Shim Made of metal being installed in CTS pedals
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Here is a quote from a thread on toyotanation.com:
“It is a pedal issue, not an ECT problem. The main problem comes in because of the type if plastic that is being used. Apparently, the CTS pedal uses a different resin/plastic that can wear down faster than the Denso brand. Unofficially, and through the grapevine mind you, I heard that Toyota already has the fix. A simple shim made of metal that will be installed in the CTS pedals. The medal will significantly reduce the wear factor. Again, this is nothing official, just what I have heard through normally very reliable sources. Toyota is currently building some 100,000 of these shims per day running 24/7.
I guess we will see what the real fix is later in the week.”
My thoughts on this post are:
This seems like it could be the cause, humidity and moisture could be the culprit here
*UPDATE*
A comment by a guest: “If the Denso pedals have a stronger plastic, why do they not replace all of the CTS pedals with Denso ones? I have a 2010 Corolla, with a 2T1 VIN (built in Canada, even though I live and purchased it in the US). According to your statements, I have one of the defective pedals.”
My reply is in the comments below.
January 30th, 2010
With regards to the Denso pedals being stronger than the CTS, I'm not sure if that's the case.
I would agree that the pedals use different resin material but the root problem could be related to a "swelling" of the resin causing "hysteresis" like properties that could interfere with the sensor module.
I'm not a scientist or chemist but I would suspect that even the slightest variance in resin type, especially in an area where the gas pedal is located, could cause a lot of issues.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ma00227a018
It could be a lot of different issues, perhaps in cities where they salt the roads and people carry that into the vehicle on their boots, moisture and/or debris swells the pedal resin or the enclosure rating of the accelerator module isn't adequate.
So I'm not sure if it's a strength issue with the pedal as much as it is a swelling issue or something of that nature.
January 31st, 2010
Thanks for your response. I do live in an area (the Northeast US) where we have the condittions that you describe, and they use a lot of salt on the roads.
Here is my concern, though — a shim is like a "bandaid", Toyota has over 2 million cars that they need to fix in a hurry. If they are using this as a temporary measure, fine, but for those of us who plan on keeping their cars for more than a few years, I want a REAL repair, not something that will just hold the petal up so that Toyota can say that they dealt with the problem.
Previously, Toyota blamed the problem on floor mats, and the length of the pedal, which they were planning to shave. Then someone died with their floor mats in their trunk, and Toyota realized that this wasn't the answer.
What do we have to do, who do we have to speak with to get a REAL change? Do we need a class action suit against Toyota? I'm not seeking this, but I truly want more than just a "shim". Thanks.
January 31st, 2010
I completely agree, the shim is a bandaid but at this point I don't think Toyota has a choice.
To make any complete replacements they would have to undergo extensive testing before the entire assembly line production could change.
I believe the shim is just a safety measure, to increase the opposition force of the spring to overpower the magnetic force that could be causing the "sticking"
February 11th, 2010
If I may offer a polite correction / clarification here:
The accelerator pedals used here do not provide any physical magnetic feedback to the operator. The magnetic portion of the pedal is used by the sensor ONLY, all physical "feel" of the pedal is attained by a friction element within the assembly.
The shim being installed per the recall addresses a possibility of this friction element within the CTS pedal becoming worn and influenced by humidity / temperature. It is stated that under this condition it is possible for the friction element to hold the pedal in position against the force of the return springs (there are 2 return springs in both pedal designs, BTW). A great image is provided by Toyota here: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/photo.aspx?fid...
'Hysteresis' refers to the signal characteristics of the magnetic sensor and can be represented in a graphical format of pedal movement vs sensor response. We can see these on the CTI website ( http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/pedal/specifica... ) , as well as the Denso website ( http://www.globaldensoproducts.com/em/gem/etcs/ac... ).
February 11th, 2010
Hi Mike,
Can you provide your background or experience just to give a better idea of your insight?
This was taken directly from the Denso website:
"DENSO’s accelerator pedal module has specific hysteretic pedal force characteristics (see the graph below), providing the same feeling as mechanical accelerator pedals."
So the above statement is incorrect in that the "hysteretic pedal force characteristics DO NOT provide the same feeling as mechanical pedals"?
February 26th, 2010
I komu to po trzebne?!?!Wymy